I‘ve spent the past year trying to eke out a niche for myself in an ever-competitive market of food service operations. My work, my livelihood, my income, and that of everyone else working for and with me depends on butts in seats in the front while, in the back, I work hard to create and serve food that does more than just satisfy the hunger.
I fight the mass eateries, I have to compete with other great dining establishments in my area, and I have to be very, very, aware of the power of reviews – online and offline, done by professionals and by diners like you and me alike.
I am a fan of honest reviews. That’s a matter of record, both here and elsewhere. I don’t mind getting slammed for my mistakes, and – unlike certain French chefs I used to know – while I take criticism of my food personal I also try to listen and improve. As Chef Jason pointed out recently, “perfect” isn’t something we reach. It’s something we reach for.
I love being reviewed, either way. Then, of course, there’s Yelp…
As long as I have been picking up the phones, I have received calls from Yelp salespeople offering me sweet deals in which my rating would go up, my negatives would go down, and special “Elites” would come review me favorably if only I signed up for a $300/m sponsorship.
I spent the same amount of time getting more or less blackmailed by said Yelp “Elites” in hopes for them to get free food and preferential treatment in exchange of not “destroying” my business with bad reviews.
I didn’t give in to either, and I can say my business didn’t suffer. Not at first, at least. Then came that six-week block during which a competing restaurant sent a few sockpuppets to bemoan things I supposedly didn’t do well – all of which were, more or less, things they prided themselves in. Two socks went so far as to conclude with “should have gone to Restaurant X” or “went to X later and it was great”. I didn’t care at first, but when I started to lose some business over it, I called Yelp and asked a simple question – were all those reviews posted by the same IP?
Yelp denied everything but promised to look into it. That week, calls to become a sponsor increased. I was offered a more direct wire to the web sites’ minders to get such things looked into. Someone had been, instead of checking on the reviews, calling sales instead.
I have had Yelp “elites” come into my place, wearing their t-shirts, and acting as if they had any clue, whatsoever, about food.
Our FoH spots them, shirts or not, in seconds. They usually ask to “see the Chef”, and sometimes when we’re not terribly busy, I indulge them. Oh, the things they say. Armed with a healthy dose of Food Network’s Paula Deen cooking knowledge, these “Elites” really presume to be able to hold a conversation about the world behind the expo window with me.
There’s sentences like “the umame was slightly pushed by the tart sweetness with a hint of a bulby saltiness”, which sounds REALLY good, but has nothing to do with the dish they describe. Mouthfuls of “flavor explosions” give way to dishes in which “a lot is going on”. There’s requests to see the kitchen, and every time I hear it, I feel taken back to my own childhood when, dressed like a pilot, I fancied myself being one and asked if I could see the cockpit. Only, you know, I kind of knew that I wasn’t a real pilot, even if I made-believe to be one in the backyard every sunny weekend day.
One memorable Friday, a Yelp meetup was held in our front room. Our restaurant consists of three areas, a dining room with bar for walk-ins, a more discrete and romantic setting in the backroom, and a coqtail and petit plate room which takes reservations for the three larger tables but doesn’t require them. The meetup had not called and reserved by name, instead our Maitre d’ noted “Yelp meetup @ 7, 8-14ppl, want something ‘special’”.
The ladies and gents came around 7, were seated in the front room and handed menus and wine selection. One asked for the sommelier, and so we sent him. Now, keep in mind, Marcus is a CMS (Certified Master Sommelier), got his chops at L’Atelier in Paris, grew up as the son of a vintner and wine maker couple, and frequently writes for some of those really “hardcore” French wine mags. He is also insanely patient, lets diners make up their own mind, only gently steering them towards a good choice to pair with. He more than once sold a cheaper wine instead of the expensive one he could have. He takes pride in doing the right thing, and much as I hate to lose the business of expensive wines, I love Marcus’ enthusiasm. I have never heard him complain, never heard him raise his voice. Until that day. “I can not do deez,” he screams in my kitchen, “deez people are ze dumbest I haff ever met. Sey know nothing about wine, but they tell me what to sink of de wine I have picked up myself in Lyons?”
My curiosity aroused (and because it’s dangerous to be around irate Frenchmen, trust me, I learned under some of them), I walked out into the floor. Just to hear the following exchange:
Yelper: “Of course you can, we’re with Yelp”
Maitre d’: “By ‘with Yelp’, do you mean ‘I work for Yelp’, in which case I am afraid this would be grossly unethical. Or do you mean ‘I have a free account on Yelp and will write a review’, in which case, frankly, and no offense, I couldn’t care less.”
Most Yelp “Elites” I spoke to, admit it’s all about getting free food and drinks in exchange for positive reviews. Some admit it publicly. In that sense, the site is a big infomercial, good reviews for pay.
The solution – start your own. Preclude these things from happening from start, find a non-extortion-based business model, and stay clear of “foodies” when looking for reviewers.
Me, I can’t do it. I am too entrenched in the restaurant industry to be unbiased and not create an appearance of bias as well. Maybe in a year, or so. Until then, someone else should… :)
Jonas, we all feel this pain in the industry. It’s not just Yelp. How often does someone threaten to give you a bad OpenTable rating or Zagat rating unless you comp them dinner or at least dessert? It happens.
I found you from the BoH web list. Nice site. My restuarnt has got calls from Yelp and extortion from elites too. Once my wife called Yelp to report one and they laughed. Assholes!!!
Booooo hoooooooo QQ whine whine meeeeh meeeeh boooooh boooooh whine whine sob sob rant rant rant
my restaurant and my farmers market stand both have been threatened by yelp elites to post bad reviews unless free product was given. i paid up and got good reviews. i wish i didn’t have to.
@ekreeger Check out @wildhunt’s blog: http://chezgeek.com/2010/02/09/yelpmailed/
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
I commend you for the detailed post. Great insight into the underhanded tactics of Yelp. I wish more restauranteurs would provide this level of specifity. With the exception of a handful of posters, there is no integrity or accountability within Yelp or Chowhound. There really is room for a brand new site that allows restaurant owners and staff to respond to specific accusations made by amatuer, anonymous reviewers. I’ve been banned from Chowhound for calling out posters I caught flat out lying about their experiences while bashing restaurants and staff on multiple occassions. Instead of letting the truth surface, many threads have been completely removed after the OP has been exposed. I wish I had time to start a new, fair and balanced site. It’s a great idea. -Patrick
http://www.servernotservant.com/
Patrick Maguire´s last blog ..Water Experiment
I’m sorry you have gone through this. It’s blackmail at its worst. Just keep talking about it. In fact, maybe you’ll let me post this story on my and a few other food websites so people will know what’s going on.
They give every food lover a bad name.
Denise Dube.
@denise You’re welcome to repost, reuse, remix, and rework my stuff at any time :)
nasty story about yelp blackmail; who ARE these people???? http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
nasty story about yelp blackmail; who ARE these people???? http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
I’m a Yelp Elite, and I have obviously never heard of any Elite acting the way you’ve described. I have heard rumors of “Yelp extortion,” but Elites are not paid or would in any way benefit from acting the way you say they do.
Asking to see the chef? Really? I’m having a difficult time believing anything you write because I think an Elite is more apt to go home and write a 1 Star review and call it a day. I’ve never witnessed any of this behavior, and I think you are just trying to get a little press.
You might notice that I am not the kind of guy seeking “press”. If anything, leaning myself out of the window by posting this can get me, my people, and my business hurt to some degree.
Do “Elites” benefit? Well, I dunno. Does getting a $130 prix fixe comped constitute a benefit?
Asking to see the chef? Happens all the time. Not only in this case, but it’s rather common these days. Generally it’s just a little gushing, but I’ve had my days during which I was questioned as to the provenance of my beef, the organic (or not) nature of my produce, and more. Our FoH is very educated on those questions as well and can explain what is, and isn’t, organic and where your protein comes from. Often that’s enough. Sometimes it isn’t. And that’s when “can you ask the Chef if he wants to join us for a second” usually happens.
It goes both ways. I have seen restaurants drop the ball over and over again.
I wrote a bad review for on Yelp a few months ago. I was compelled to do so only after having eaten at 2 of their establishments (eating completely different items) and getting violently ill both times. This, to me, says health hazard.
So I get contacted by the restaurant’s management… followed by their insurance provider. Once the insurance provider learns that I didn’t seek a hospital’s assistance, they bow out gracefully. Now it’s back to the restaurant… they INVITE me to come back and have a meal on them. Let’s be honest, folks… and as a restaurant owner, please pay attention… if someone is getting ill at your establishment… the best you can do to keep a positive spin on your place is offer some sort of compensation. NOT ask them to come back to the place of the ordeal! Because, although I’d hesitate to recommend that place to someone in the future, if the situation was managed correctly, I’d also not be quick to direct someone elsewhere or offer my situation as an example of why NOT to go there.
Why in the world would I ever want to return to a place that gave me abdominal turbulance for hours????? Not to mention, when it’s the second time it happened (before you go assuming it might be my issue, another member of my party sharing the same food ALSO came down with the same thing).
6 months later, I have never received any sort of monetary compensation back… after politely declining their offer to “have a meal on them”. I find it appalling that we spent $300+ on a meal for 4 people and they never even attempted to try to refund a portion of it to try to make up for it.
I’ve also had food poisoning a few years ago( I eat out too much) at a place that I called to let them know that their fish was bad and that I was sick from it. They said ok…. took my name, address and phone number… and I never heard back from them. They sent me a “Save 15% postcard” in the mail a few months later. So basically, they used my complaint as an opportunity to add me to their mailing list.
@Barbara – I feel your pain. I eat out a lot, too, most of it having to do with me not wanting to go home and cook again. As a chef, I see the two sides of this, and I find that in many cases the diner, me, you, is treated badly by the places they dine in.
As I said in “In Defense of Negative Reviews” (http://chezgeek.com/2009/04/24/in-defense-of-negative-reviews/), I believe that any restaurant not giving 110% should suffer the consequences. That’s even more so true when it comes to food borne illnesses and unsanitary work in general.
The other side of the medal is two-fold. We’re very reluctant to admit fault on the phone. Why? Because for every legitimate call like yours, there’s about ten we get from people seeking financial or other compensation for no true reason. “I ate at your place, now I am sick” calls are rather common. What we usually do is to a) take the person’s name and number. b) ask whom the reservation was under, if there was one, c) track the order, and then determine what could have caused the illness.
If we find that something could have (rule of thumb – it’s never just one person that gets sick, if we get two calls we know we have a problem) gone wrong, we inform the authorities, call the person to get a statement, offer to refund the dinner for all members of their party, and – yes – offer a free meal at a time of their choosing to prove we’re better than that. The diner can take us up on it or not.
Other places might do it differently, but I believe in setting things right. But then, in the time I’ve worked in hospitality, we only ever had two cases of food borne illnesses. Either one was discovered soon after the affected product was opened by us, and because we work clean and to standards, we never got anyone seriously sick (knocks on wood, but believes that hard work and sanitary practices are more important than superstition).
In case you were wondering, there’s a Yelp thread on this in the Manhattan local section: http://www.yelp.com/topic/manhattan-is-yelp-blackmailing-restaurants
The consensus: J. is lying, his food sucks, Elites don’t do this, and the 100s restaurateurs and chefs who have publicly spoken out and said they received these calls or have been pressured into free food are all wrong.
I a nutshell, I stand behind my statements. With my name, my phone number, and my reputation. Considering only one of these Yelp defenders has managed to come out and answer publicly, I am not convinced that I am the bad guy, here.
I don’t mention the restaurant (anywhere on this blog) for a simple reason – to ward off accusations as leveled by the one Yelp Elite to come here and speak up, that I am somehow trying to generate press for my place of work.
Combine this with the fact that I have received around 40 calls, some prank some simply accusatory, and 26 emails to the topic while the blog post is rather quiet (despite around 330 click-throughs from Yelp), and I don’t fear anyone would mistake me for the underhanded party :)
Disturbing blog post about Yelp extortion, not about Yelp the business, but Yelper “Elite” consumer reviewers: http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
That’s why I never trust Yelp. RT @mcslimjb: Disturbing blog post about Yelper “Elite” consumer reviewers: http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
Most “Yelp Elites” think they are the motherfucking NY Time whilst writing reviews. PFFFT!
And how ATROCIOUS! They wear yelp shirts to your establishment? BARF!
“Elite” extortion: the sinister underbelly of Yelp. RT @mcslimjb: Disturbing blog post about Yelp extortion, not about http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
Shameful behavior by “elites” MT @mcslimjb Disturbing post about Yelp extortion by Yelper “Elite” consumer reviewers: http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
Hello,
I’m a Yelp Elite and I learned about you from Yelp Talk. I’m sort of not surprised by your post. The way they choose Yelp Elites is akin to pulling names out of a hat. I admit freely that I wanted to be Elite because of the free stuff that Yelp itself arranges for Elites at their events. But there are enough douchebags out there amongst us to easily believe what you’re saying.
I tend to use Yelp with a grain of salt, but I tend to find it on the whole much more useful than reading the pompous musings of “professional” food writers. I find reviewers I like or trust, and ‘follow’ them. Some reviewers (even Elites) are just wrong all the time. I guess we just have to hope that on the whole, the reviewers (like most people) are honest and are trying to be helpful.
Bad news for Yelp http://bit.ly/ajWV5q
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
I’m one of Yelp’s Elite and this comes as a surprise to me. I can’t believe people wear Yelp gear in public and can’t believe they would act like you say they did. I’ve never wanted to reveal that I’m Elite because I don’t want any special treatment when I go out to restaurants.
For what it’s worth, restaurants are able to contact reviewers through Yelp. I had a bad experience at a hotel once and shortly after I posted a review, the company contacted me and offered me compensation. It is never my intention to try to get free things. I review because I think it is helpful to the owners to know that the bathroom smelled like rotten eggs or the pad thai is way too salty, etc. so they can work on improving the issues.
Sorry you’ve had such a poor experience. Not all of the Elites are jerks.
@silentproject why I can’t trust Yelp RT @mcslimjb: blog post about Yelper “Elite” consumer reviewers: http://bit.ly/ajWV5q viva Chowhound!
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
ugh… it’s freaking yelp… If you are defending the Elites, you don’t get it. it’s not like they are a collective. It’s about people thinking they have sort of authority b/c their reviews are public and a yelp gives them a badge.
but now it’s getting to a point where there are so many people reviewing places, it’s not just the informed anymore (if it ever was). I think people are realizing that the people reviewing in general are the general uninformed, useless opinion. There are some good reviewers, but you have to find them.
JO´s last blog ..Lhasa’s Here – Lao Bei Fang’s Tibetan Border Chaser
An interesting post by Chez Geek about Yelp Elites (allegedly) blackmailing restaurants: http://chezgeek.com/2010/02/09/yelpmailed/
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
“With the exception of a handful of posters, there is no integrity or accountability within Yelp or Chowhound….I’ve been banned from Chowhound for calling out posters I caught flat out lying about their experiences while bashing restaurants and staff on multiple occassions.”
As a longtime Chowhound regular, I can’t agree with you there, Patrick. It should be noted that you’re not supposed to call people out on Chowhound and start flame wars; you’re supposed to use the report button. They do heed reports—and they also ban people who consistently fail to stick to the topic at hand or start arguments, as apparently was the case in your experience.
The mods aren’t always on top of removing shills or flames immediately, but they do get around to it ASAP.
As with Yelp, I imagine Chowhound’s quality can vary from board to board, poster to poster. But by and large I’ve learned more about food on Chowhound than I have from any other single source, and I think it’s remarkably well policed by the readers themselves—who have nothing financial to gain; they have only to maintain their own integrity, something I think hounds tend to care about.
None of which is exactly relevant. To the Yelp Elites who have commented thoughtfully here, like #13 and #14—and though I’m not an Elite I do use Yelp mainly for factual info about restaurants rather than culinary opinion—kudos. To the ones who haven’t, like #3—you do Yelp a disservice with such a snotty attitude. If you’re a committed Yelper, try making the site look good by showing a little dignity and empathy.
Denveater´s last blog ..Hapahazard
Denvereater- I know the “rules of the road” on Chowhound, and I realize that it’s not appropriate to start flame wars anywhere. I was not banned for failing to stick to the topic at hand or for starting arguments. I was bannned for being an “industry insider” (pre-blog), despite the fact that I haven’t worked in the industry for years. I was told by the mods that I have too much information about restaurants. I thought sharing information about restaurants was the whole idea? Despite my emails explaining that I eat out almost every night, they booted me.
I disagree with your assertion that they heed reports well on Chowhound. There have been several occassions where I have been one voice among many, that would drill down a situation within a thread, and when the OP was exposed for omitting critical components of the “whole” story, the mods intervened and said “don’t challenge the poster,” or took comments down that challenged the poster and revealed the truth. Rather than encouraging the full story, and allowing everyone to learn something about the OP, the truth, and about the restaurant, they frequently chose censorship to protect the OP. That’s a waste of a lot of good, productive, thoughtful commentary by a lot of people to reveal the truth. No site integrity.
For example, one seasoned CH poster who is in the small CH clique, started a post calling the owner of a restaurant obnoxious in the title, also citing the name of the restaurant in the title. In his post he went so far as to say that the owner “deserved to be slugged.” So people who only scan titles had a negative impression of restaurant X and associate “obnoxious” with the owner.
For those willing to dig in, the truth of “the rest of the story” was revealed in the thread because readers challenged the Op’s surprising characterization of the owner. The OP didn’t get his way in the restaurant because he disagreed with their policy of not seating incomplete parties. Experienced diners understand why small, extremely busy restaurants don’t seat incomplete parties. Apparently this guy thought the rules were for everyone else and became irate, thus the vitriolic comments in his post.
Instead of allowing the “teachable moment” on the CH boards, vindicating the restaurant owner, the moderators took down all of the comments that questioned the OP. Eventually they removed the whole thread, long after the damage was done to the restaurant. Chowhound credibility shot to pieces again.
I’ve witnessed several similar scenarios unfold over the years with anonymous posters on Chowhound. It happens more often than many people will admit, and much more frequently than most people will ever know.
I agree with your assessment about the Yelp posters within this thread. It’s nice to read the candid, thoughtful posts by those willing to tell the truth.
http://www.servernotservant.com/
Ah, I didn’t realize they considered you an industry insider. On that score, I do completely understand why chefs/restaurateurs feel frustrated at their inability to engage their critics in an open and honest fashion; funny thing is, many Chowhounds I know have said they would welcome it as well.
I’ve been on the boards for years (I see from your interesting-looking blog you’re a Bostonian; I was a board regular there from 01 until I moved to Denver in 07) and can sympathize but still can’t entirely agree with your assessment. Many regular hounds, including me, *have* experienced frustration at times with the mods for what seems to be inconsistent/arbitrary practice—coming down too hard here and not down hard enough there—but I tend to chalk it up to well-meaning, and in my experience infrequent, human error. (And when I’ve been really frustrated, I’ve vented on the Site Talk board. I do miss the days when the site was small enough that mods could contact you directly and tell you why a post got removed though.) In the end, no forum is going to be ideal, and to me Chowhound as close as it comes. (As you yourself note, other hounds besides yourself tried to set the record straight; I’ve almost never seen a suspect post that hasn’t gone unchallenged.)
All that said, if you think of a way and start your own, even more fair forum, more power to you; I promise to frequent it! Hell, I’ll volunteer to help!
Anyway, this whole blog post is very interesting (I didn’t really mean to hijack the comments! apologies) and I applaud Chez Geek for challenging Yelpers to come forward on these rumors—it’s not as though he started them; they’re widespread cross-country—as well as those Yelpers who take their reviews (as opposed to themselves; same goes for hounds) seriously, as well as the allegations, and are doing their part to discourage bad practice.
Denveater´s last blog ..Hapahazard
As a yelp elite in Boston, I’m a little horrified at this. I’ve been elite for longer then most, and no way would I ever tell a restaurant that I’m with yelp, and certainly not for perks. First of all, elites are selected for their reviews and their contributions socially. It’s not like we work for yelp. Second of all, there are thousands and thousands of yelpers writing reviews. For every person who acts like that, there are a thousand who would never dream of behaving like that. Thirdly, I can’t speak to the company’s alleged shadiness, but if that’s true, I am disgusted. Mostly, I want to say that I’m sorry you experience this, but not all of us are like this. And I don’t think that would fly in Boston. This was posted on our talk board and people were horrified.
i am also a yelp elite and have never heard this and ashamed if it does…I do know that happens with hotel concierges, but not mentioned by you…hmm… and I am sure others in position of power do similiar (how’s the city health inspector treating you??> And guess what, similar things happen to all people in all lines of work. sorry your cross is so especially heavy to carry than the rest of the world, poor soul.
I am a Yelper (although, not ‘Elite’). Personally, I don’t get the whole “Elite” status thing. I have a personal life so I do not attend Yelp events. That being said, I believe your story. I would never do it, but it does sound plausible.
It’s really hard to police Yelp. You have some business that clearly are having their friends write 5 star reviews (you can tell because most of the reviews happen within a few days of each other, all are ‘orange heads’ meaning no pics, and most only have the one review.
I like to check out Yelp and if there is a consistent theme or many many reviews that are all either good or all bad, then I consider it accurate. One or two bad reviews won’t stop me from visiting a place, but 10+ will.
Good luck. I hope you can straighten this out. :)
I’m really sorry that this has happened to your, and others, establishment. I have to confess that I am an Elite on Yelp, though relatively new. Yelp often holds events for us by renting out an establishment and providing free food and drinks, but I have never heard of something that you have described occur. I am not surprised that it has though, and for that I am truly sorry. It makes me feel naive and foolish to be proud of the Elite title on a website where some of it’s members abuse their affiliation and its salespeople have pushed beyond the limits of good business practice. Though I’m sure that your’s is not the first report of such abuses, I truly hope that it stops with you and the Yelp takes more responsibility of its members’ conduct and it’s sales department’s practices.
No doubt, advertisers in bed with reviewers in traditional print or on the Web present many opportunities for elasticized ethics.
But I’m more concerned about the consumer who thinks that reading Yelp or Trip Advisor will give him unbiased information.
Who IS believable?
I am a travel consultant who does not depend upon commissions; my clients pay me a time-based fee. My advice is based on my years of experience with the food, lodging, and logistics in particular areas(primarily in the Turkey & the Eastern Mediterranean).
Yet, even as some are paying me, they still dip into TripAdvisor where they are seduced by reviews that may– or may not– be from unbiased correspondents. When I do know my clients’ expectations and can talk them out of something, I provide a good service, but I cannot always save them from the siren calls of Trip Advisor ratings and comments.
The couple bumped up to the Pasha Suite is as common as the disgruntled guests threatening the reception desk– “We’re going to report you on Trip Advisor!” in hope of snagging that same upgrade. In neither case are these potential reviewers unbiased.
Somehow a favorable article or mention of a place in a public forum give it a gloss that many find irresistible. The legions of tourists-turned reviewers feel empowered by seeing themselves in print.
More info is not necessarily making choices easier for diners or travellers.
Holly (at) hollychase (dot) com
Holly Chase´s last undefined ..Response cached until Sun 14 @ 22:46 GMT (Refreshes in 23.93 Hours)
This bullying behavior is criminal. Some have said the only difference between a pro and an amateur critic is whether they are paid by a news organization / content provider to do a review. I think we have to add to that that pros, no matter what platform they’re writing for, stick to a code of ethics and suffer serious consequences if they don’t. (Plugola can cost a pro his or her job and ruin careers.)
I’m a food journalist, and have never demanded a meal. I really don’t (and don’t like to) review restaurants, but the few times I have, I’ve paid for my meal or the organization I’m writing for has paid for it. The rare times that I get gifts from the kitchen (again, unsolicited), I make it clear that I don’t review restaurants. And when I’m given free food, I add the value of that food to the tip.